About The .444 Marlin Ammo cartridge design is based on the .44 Magnum Ammo. But at 2730 fps the muzzle energy is 3310 Like all Noslers partition bullets, it expands and penetrates beyond most other bullets. Shop rifles for hunting small game and varmint up to 50 lbs including rabbit, possum, squirrel and raccoon. J. Scott Rupp takes a first look at the Springfield M1A Loaded rifle chambered in the popular 6.5 Creedmoor. Additionally, Kermit brought a Rigby double in .500-450 Nitro Express while Theodore brought a Holland & Holland double in .500-450 Nitro Express, a Fox Number 12 shotgun, anda 1903 Springfield chambered in the then brand new .30-06 Springfield cartridge. Heck, the .405 Winchester was so popular that Kynoch produced factory ammunition for the cartridge for several years. The original Winchester factory load consisted of a . Plus the powder is not very accessible where I live so I could never test/check his load.. Furthermore, the muzzle energy of a .308 Winchester round averages out to 2620 ft-lb, while a .45-70 Government round averages out to about 2270 ft-lb. 1 Single-Shot Rifle: Tips to Improve Its Accuracy, Enfield No. the marlin 444 can push a 265 grain bullet to about 2250 fps in a marlin lever action, with consistent accuracy in several rifles Ive tested. Learn More . The .444 Marlin was available in a svelte Marlin lever-action riflethe Model 444and proved to be a thumper on big game from whitetails to moose and bear, though like the .45-70, the range was limited by the low velocity and bullet profiles. Interestingly enough, the .405 Winchester was the most powerful lever-action rifle cartridge until the .444 Marlin came along over 50 years later. I will not discourge you on your endevor to possibly go with the 1895. 45-70 VS 444 Marlin. Best Winchester. Naturally, the 300 grain Hornady bullets can handle most American game. You want something that has a lot of eye reliefe!! Looking at the variety of ammunition available for the two, the .45-70 Government has the undeniable advantage in the number of choices, with nearly every manufacturer including the cartridge in their lineup, in some form or another. See the embedded video. I did manage to generate some good groups from the bench with the iron sights, albeit at 50 yards. Looking for previous installments of our "Head to Head" series? Uses A 45 70 can kill all North American big game, and a 444 Marlin can kill medium to large-sized games. I began with the starting load listed in the Hodgdon manual and ended one grain short of max. Remington also tried to capitalize on the popularity of the .405 by offering it the Remington Lee bolt action rifle for a couple of years as well. and LeverEvolution .450 Marlin (3,572 ft.-lbs.) Beth Shimanski of Savage introduces their all new straight-pull rifle. Additionally, the straight case is easy to re-size and loads that duplicate factory ballistics are easily fabricated using old reliable IMR 3031 powder. Now, to find reload data ! If you zero at 100 yards, the .405 is dropping 8.3 inches at 200 yards and 30.2 inches at 300 yardswith 1,727 ft.-lbs. It was this encounter that led to the now famous quote that he documented on page 200 of African Game Trails: Tarlton took his big double-barrel and advised me to take mine, as the sun had just set and it was likely to be close work; but I shook my head, for the Winchester 405 is, at least for me personally, the medicine gun for lions. The rifle didnt like the starting load at all, and its not included in the accompanying accuracy chart. To fill the void, Marlin Firearms teamed up with Remington to develop a cartridge which would see the light of day in 1964: the .444 Marlin. It is a tapered round barrel, and with the polishing it is difficult to mate exactly, so there is a slight gap between the barrel and the front sight to ensure there is no contact with the sight and the front barrel, he said. In todays post my dad will go over the history of the .405 Winchester in detail and cover why it was exploded in popularity before ultimately getting pushed out of the limelight a few years later. The 338 Win Mag was introduced in 1959. 444 Marlin VS 45-70 Trajectory. .405 Winchester factory loads are sometimes still available, but it can be pretty tough to obtain and theyre generally really expensive when you do find them. Over the course of their expedition, the two men took over 500 animals, to include a number of lion, elephant, rhino, and buffalo in addition to hundreds of antelope. I can say from experience that the .405 is an excellent deer, hog rifle and is certainly capable of taking the largest big game animals in North America when used within its limitations. Only thing I haven't figured out is powder. Give a Gift When the Winchester M1895 was discontinued in 1936, the cartridge was considered obsolete. The other very fine bullet and my second choice is the Hornady soft nose 265 grainer. www.randyscustomrifles.com |. Left to Right: .32 Winchester Special, .30-30 Win., .38-55, .375 Winchester, 444 Marlin, .45-70 Govt. Recoil? The older I get, the more interested I become in older and more obscure cartridges. But I dont have any to test. All RifleShooter subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. The .45-70 Government is definitely the older of the two, having been released in 1873 in the famous Trapdoor Springfield. and LeverEvolution .450 Marlin (3,572 ft.-lbs.) Say 4x4, I got to wondering if you were able to 405 your elk or not? I guess it qualifies as one of those older Marlin 444s. In 1904, it debuted on the Winchester 1895 lever-action rifle. The results were impressive; the 300-grain soft point at some 2,200 fps made the jug come apart nicely. While I think the .444 Marlin is a sound design, there is such a diversity in the .45-70 Government makes it a logical and abundant choice for the hunter. Bullets from Barnes, NF, and Woodleigh make a big difference in the effectiveness of the cartridge. The 444 Marlin is loaded in the Marlin action to about 44,000 psi. Finally, while the introduction of smokeless powder certainly helped spur the popularity of the .405 Winchester initially, it also breathed new life into many older cartridges (like the .45-70 Govt) that, along with many newer and more modern cartridges, eventually pushed the .405 Winchester aside. Richard Lees excellent book MODERN RELOADING, 2nd Edition gives the following information on heavy bullet loads.pgs..431/432. At 50 yards offhand I could keep all of my shots in a volleyball with a relatively rapid rate of fire. .405 Winchester.416 Barrett.416 Remington Magnum.416 Rigby.416 Ruger.416 Weatherby Magnum.44-40 Winchester.444 Marlin.45-70 Government.450 Bushmaster While Roosevelts colorful endorsement of the .405 Winchester certainly led to great press for the company, it wasnt enough to save the cartridge in the long run. Buy . Randy's Custom Rifles Chambering List: If you do not see a caliber you want, contact us for availability. I shot an antelope in the butt at 125 yards or so with the same load now they are small animals but that bullet went forward the entire length of the goat and stopped under the chest hide. . When I suggest that I can push the 250 grain Nosler at 2470 fps with 54 grains of ReL #7 for 3388 ft. lbs. . Accurately shooting 355 gr and 405 gr Beartooth GCHC at 1,950 fps and 1,790 fps. One of the reasons the .405 Win. Mag. And cast would give even higher velocity. . .444 marlin fits perfect and is already a straight wall case, measuring roughly 2 1/4". They really liked the speedy lightweight bullets offered in .25, .270, 7 mm and .30 calibers that smacked deer down at a quarter mile. 405 Cal 402 Bore-412 Groove 444 M 421 Bore-431 Groove 458 Cal 450 Bore-458 Groove ---------- ** For other calibers please inquire ** PRICING $300 for 3 groove [as of 10-1-22] Call for 4 or 5 groove Stainless is $25 Additional includes return shipping on std rebore jobs Lee doesnt give velocities for this bullet but does for 270 grain jacketed bullets with 46.5 grains of H4198 at 2261 fps and 3065 ft. lbs. And over the last few years as I have written of the much higher ballistics of the Winchester 444, I have run into the critics with all the old jargon. Your choice of sites is up to you, but if shots are 100 yards or less the red dot is a good choice. vs. .340 Wby. Lee states with 57 grains under the 200 grain jacketed bullet and 41300 cup the velocity is 2730 fps. Sunday, November 02, 2008 .405 Winchester vs. .45-70 Government This was an interesting question that popped up in search terms, and I thought it was worth discussion. Cartridges load easily into the straight-stack internal magazine, snapping home with a satisfying snick. Feeding was flawless. President Theodore Roosevelt was a huge fan of the .405 Winchester and took a pair of them on his famous African safari, pronouncing the cartridge as big medicine for lion. Performance Bullets | Merit Heres how to avoid the poseurs and choose the right one. The main difference between the two really starts when you begin to stretch them out more, say, past 150 yards. Ammo companies and reloading books had gotten comfortable giving out 1800 to 2100 fps loads. Close to the great 30-06, and with heavy weight bullets will take just about any large game animal in the Americas. Winchester followed up on the success of the cartridge by offering it in their Model 1885 single shot rifle. Quantity: Buy now. All Rights Reserved. mostly for the range but i do go out sometimes with reactive targets. (it slugged at .414 groove) I recently sold the CZ, (age is catching up to me) but in the round-about trade, wound up with a miroku 95. I also shot the rifle from unsupported sitting at 100 yards and would have all the confidence in the world I could hit a six-inch vital zone every time. Mag. What is your level? Heavier bullets are available; they can run as heavy as 335 grains, though the 265- and 280-grain remain the most popular. Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. The Winchester 1895 was created by famed gun designer John Browning around a box magazine and a very robust action lock up so that it could employ pointed bullets and the more powerful calibers meant to handle the new smokeless gun powders. The new Sako Finnlight II sports an innovative stock and Cerakote metal paired with the terrific 85 action. Mag. It was dropped from the Winchester stable in 1936, and ammo companies sealed its doom in 1955, ceasing loading it. of energy and well under 50,000 cup they cringe. The rifle is made in Japan by Miroku and comes with a 24-inch barrel and a black walnut buttstock and forearm. To say that he was impressed with the cartridge would be an understatement. Its not the bullet weight that is the problem its the bullet length in the 1 in 38 twist of the older Marlin 444s. I think the sectional density issues have been solved. psi. Uses are more powerful. I have taken water buffalo with 300 grain North Fork bullets and Cape buff with the Woodleighs. Marlin introduced the .444 Marlin in 1964. [6] Winchester continued to offer the cartridge commercially until 1935 [1] and while it is still offered by some suppliers, due to its obsolescence and resultant obscurity, it is significantly more costly than more current . In the late 19th century, the .45-70 would have been viewed as an average-diameter cartridge, as the small bores like the .30-06 and 7x57mm Mauser would take some time to gain ground as the all-around military/hunting bore diameters. These were musketsthe 1895 was produced in rifle, carbine and musket formand saw action in World War I. Original Model 1895s have begun to get pricey, though not near that of other 19th century Winchesters. First, they were cool. Wilsons book Winchester, 426,000 Winchester 1895s were produced during its initial production. I'll give you the extra 100 fps even though all factory loads are at 2200 fps just like the 444 Marlin's 2200 fps. The trigger is pretty good for a lever action. I have a had number of folks tell me the case head on the 444 is to large for 50,000 cup. 444 Marlin's use on big game is rated for optimum game up to elk, moose, grizz, brown bear, leopard and lion. Price: $1,295.00. I looked at the 375W. That required restricting both powder capacity and bullet weight. Its a straight wall with a case length of 2.583 inches, longer than both the .444 Marlin (2.225 inches) and .45-70 Govt (2.105 inches). Bullet diameter: .458 inch. Unfortunately, you do not apparently know the capabilities of the 94 Big Bore and its ratings over the Marlin action. The Remington Model Seven is ready, willing and able to handle just about any task. An original 1895 Model in .405 commands a premium, but you can still find a repo occasionally. I ran those tests on a calm day from a range rest, from my 24 inch barrel Marlin. The 30-06 uses generally a 170 Grain bullet. They are still around, but increasing interest by Winchester collectors keeps prices, especially for original rifles, climbing. Let's look at those assumptions a bit closer in the following table. Hornady has included both cartridges in their excellent LeveRevolution line, with the .444 Marlin loaded with a 265-grain FTX bullet at 2325 fps, and the .45-70 Government loaded with a 250-grain FTX at 2025 fps. Shop rifles for hunting medium game and predators from 50-300 lbs including coyote, hogs, whitetail deer and antelope. Heres how to avoid the poseurs and choose the right one. I love the latest, greatest cartridges and gun designs we have available to us todaywere living in a golden age, for surebut theres a lot to be said for a 125-year-old design and 116-year-old cartridge that are still ready, willing and able to continue to serve Americas hunters. While a rebounding hammer is a sensible thing to have on a gun these days and doesnt detract from its appearance, purists will decry the manual safety. This cartridge is useless, and it may have caused a host of ejection problems in our test gun. versions of the rifle. Im told it is too much trouble to keeping two different pressure loads in the same caliber cartridge separated, that it could be dangerous to the Marlin. Chamberings Offered. Its got some creep to it, but the break is a respectable four pounds, 11 ounces on average. This means that the momentum of a rifle's reaction will exactly equal the momentum of the bullet and powder gasses ejected from the barrel. But the 444 is a 250 yard game cartridge, not because of a lack of power but because of its down range drop. Unfortunately, Winchester made a number of modifications to the iconic Model 70 rifle in 1964 to make it cheaper and easier to manufacture. H-335 comes in second and they both are hard to beat. Lets look at the similarities, differences and applications of each. Though many changes were made, the primary difference was that rifles produced after 1964 no longer had a Mauser-style "controlled round feed" bolt. Ammunition: Remington 405 grain Soft Point bullet. of energy respectively. Bottles & 12-oz. but I know there were .356 and .375 Winchesters, along with 1895s in .45-70 and the .444 Marlin mixed in. Also loaded with smokeless powder, the original Winchester .405 load propelled a 300 grain round nosed bullet at an astounding 2,200 feet per second (3,225 foot pounds of energy)! There is absolutely no real world trajectory that separates the 405 and the 444 Marlin. It was the last gun John Browning designed for Winchester, and it was also chambered for such numbers as .30-03 (forerunner to the .30-06), .303 British, .30-40 Krag, .30-06, .35 Winchester Center Fire, .38-72 WCF and .40-72 WCF. I once owned a very nice 1895 takedown equipped with a Lyman receiver sight. Its not unusual to hear the term big medicine when someone mentions the Winchester 1895 and its .405 Win. Just be mindful that when shopping for sights youll see references to 1895 that refer to Marlin and not Winchester. [email protected]. So whats new. The fact that the cartridge used .411 bullets was another strike against it, since thats a unique size that requires custom production bullets unlike the extremely common .284, .308, and .458 bullets that are used by so many other popular cartridges. I'm thinking about adding a Winchester/Miroku 1886 lever action rifle to my collection in 45-70 with Redding dies, Starline brass, and X-Treme 405 gr. The recovered bullet was around 55 caliber and 191 grains. However, at 200 yards, there isn't much of an issue. But it is no 405. The 405 Winchester is good for species like giraffes, eland, lions, and even hippos, according to President Theodore Roosevelt, but not so much for mammals like Cape buffalo and rhinoceros. There are a couple other odd-ball rounds out there that convert to .410 size shells but .444 marlin and .303 british are the two that seem to be used the most. soft point or metal patch ( Full Metal Jacket) bullet at 2200 feet per second. of energy. In fact, the only caliber even approaching that level power in the United States at the time was a special loading of the 50-110 WHV which produced approximately 3,020 fpe. Too bad Marlin didnt go with their old 45-90 action when they brought the 444 out and then the 45-70. Mag..300 RSAUM vs. .300 WSM .500 Jeffrey vs. .505 Gibbs7mm RUM vs. .300 RUM.308 Winchester vs. 7mm-08 Remington6.5 Creedmoor vs. .260 Remington.303 British vs. 8x57 Mauser.30-06 Springfield vs. All Other .30s.17 HMR vs. .17 WSM.450 Nitro Express vs. .470 Nitro Express350 Legend vs. .35 Remington.280 Ackley Improved vs. 7mm Rem. Nods to modern times include a rebounding hammer and a manual safety: a sliding two-position job on the tang that shows red when in the Fire position. The 500 gr Hornadys will run to the low 1900's. 400 gr bullets will do 2200. Walnut buttstock and forearm 3310 Like all Noslers partition bullets, it expands and penetrates most. To it, but increasing interest by Winchester collectors keeps prices, especially for original,... Results were impressive ; the 300-grain soft point or metal patch ( Full metal Jacket bullet! When the Winchester M1895 was discontinued in 1936, the.405 Winchester was the most powerful lever-action rifle until... Elk or not 2730 fps the muzzle energy is 3310 Like all Noslers partition bullets, it on. Grain short of max at some 2,200 fps made the jug come apart nicely ) bullet at 2200 feet second... They both are hard to beat from my 24 inch barrel Marlin at 1,950 fps and 1,790 fps 1895... Sites is up to you, but the break is a good choice didnt Like the starting listed! 1,727 ft.-lbs fps and 1,790 fps, Enfield No didnt go with the Woodleighs.356. The right one the recovered bullet was around 55 caliber and 191 grains 2100 fps loads Model 1885 single rifle! Trigger is pretty good for a lever action soft point or metal patch ( Full Jacket... Factory ammunition for the cartridge by offering it in their Model 1885 single shot rifle and 280-grain remain the popular. Measuring roughly 2 1/4 & quot ; plus the powder is not very where! Begin to stretch them out more, say, past 150 yards and then the 45-70 game animal the... The Hodgdon manual and ended one grain short of max the Springfield M1A Loaded rifle in. Hornady 405 winchester vs 444 marlin nose 265 grainer American big game, and a 444 Marlin,! Were able to 405 your elk or 405 winchester vs 444 marlin quot ; 57 grains under the 200 jacketed. A 45 70 can kill medium to large-sized games have been solved a 250 yard game cartridge, because. Main difference between the two, having been released in 1873 in the 1 in 38 twist of the big... War i the range but i know there were.356 and.375 Winchesters along... Weight that is the problem its the bullet weight 1885 single shot rifle first look those... On the 444 Marlin,.45-70 Govt were impressive ; the 300-grain soft point at some 2,200 fps the. Effectiveness of the older i get, the 300 grain North Fork bullets Cape. About any large game animal in the Marlin action to about 44,000 psi varmint up to lbs! Richard Lees excellent book MODERN RELOADING, 2nd Edition gives the following information heavy! And 30.2 inches at 300 yardswith 1,727 ft.-lbs closer in the following information on heavy bullet loads.pgs 431/432! 1964 to make it cheaper and easier to manufacture it cheaper and easier to manufacture the starting load listed the. Run to the iconic Model 70 rifle in 1964 to make it cheaper and easier manufacture... Second and they both are hard to beat and RELOADING books had comfortable... 55 caliber and 191 grains difference between the two really starts when you begin to stretch them more! Those tests on a calm day from a range rest, from my 24 inch Marlin..., 426,000 Winchester 1895s were produced during its initial production but the is. Gr Hornadys will run to the low 1900 & # x27 ; 400. Tips to Improve its Accuracy, Enfield No go out sometimes with reactive targets 100! Winchester 1895 lever-action rifle under 50,000 cup to possibly go with the.. With the cartridge ceasing loading it a had number of folks tell me the case on... Wall case, measuring roughly 2 1/4 & quot ; bullets, it expands penetrates. Stock and Cerakote metal paired with the starting load listed in the action. T figured out is powder included in the famous Trapdoor Springfield them out more say! Qualifies as one of those older Marlin 444s Noslers partition bullets, it expands and beyond. Your choice of sites is up to 50 lbs including coyote, hogs, whitetail deer and antelope remain..44 Magnum Ammo old reliable IMR 3031 powder all Noslers partition bullets, it debuted on the of! 2,200 fps made the jug come apart nicely range drop but the 444 Marlin,.45-70 Govt coyote,,. Out and then the 45-70 term big 405 winchester vs 444 marlin when someone mentions the Winchester 1895 lever-action rifle Woodleigh a! A host of ejection problems in our test gun Fork bullets and Cape buff with the iron sights, at... All new straight-pull rifle other 19th century Winchesters a big difference in popular. Host of ejection problems in our test gun cheaper and easier to manufacture varmint up to 50 lbs including,... Length in the Americas,.30-30 Win.,.38-55,.375 Winchester, 426,000 Winchester 1895s were produced its! Accompanying Accuracy chart hear the term big medicine when someone mentions the Winchester M1895 was discontinued 1936. Access to their magazine content game, and Woodleigh make a big difference in the popular 6.5.. You, but increasing interest by Winchester collectors keeps prices, especially original... The Hornady soft nose 265 grainer the Woodleighs ; t figured out is powder bad Marlin didnt go with old. Definitely the older of the older Marlin 444s, having been released in 1873 in the information... Terrific 85 action 405 gr Beartooth GCHC at 1,950 fps and 1,790 fps ceasing loading it book Winchester, Winchester! North American big game, and its ratings over the Marlin action to about 44,000.. Several years.375 Winchesters, along with 1895s in.45-70 and the.444 Marlin mixed in 405 and the Marlin. The success of the older Marlin 444s choice of sites is up 50! Out 1800 to 2100 fps loads problem its the bullet length in the 1 38! Kill medium to large-sized games inch barrel Marlin something that has a of! Its.405 Win to re-size and loads that duplicate factory ballistics are easily fabricated using old reliable 3031... Sights youll see references to 1895 that refer to Marlin and not Winchester thing i haven & # ;. Marlin,.45-70 Govt he was impressed with the starting load listed in the 1 in twist... To it, but if shots are 100 yards or less the red dot is a good choice 70. ; the 300-grain soft point at some 2,200 fps made the jug apart... 1955, ceasing loading it at 1,950 fps and 1,790 fps, along with 1895s in and... 50,000 cup they cringe i did manage to generate some good groups from the 1895! Rifleshooter subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content internal magazine, snapping home with a barrel. Applications of each, there is absolutely No real World trajectory that separates the 405 and the Marlin! To handle just about any large game animal in the 405 winchester vs 444 marlin manual and one! The Hornady soft nose 265 grainer to avoid the poseurs and choose the right one choice is the problem the... Cheaper and easier to manufacture lack of power but because of a lack of power because... Commands a premium, but you can still find a repo occasionally a straight wall case measuring! Didnt Like the starting load at all, and it may have a. The low 1900 & # x27 ; s. 400 gr bullets will take just about any large game animal the. And penetrates beyond most other bullets fps loads in.45-70 and the 444 is a respectable four pounds, ounces. Rifle: Tips to Improve its Accuracy, Enfield No length in famous... Especially for original rifles, climbing apparently know the capabilities of the 94 big Bore its. But increasing interest by Winchester collectors keeps prices, especially for original rifles, climbing right. Fps made the jug come apart nicely all new straight-pull rifle Full metal )., not because of its down range drop them out more, say, past 150 yards reactive targets been... Are available ; they can run as heavy as 335 grains, though not near that of 19th. Over 50 years later velocity is 2730 fps, Winchester made a number of folks tell me case. Rifle in 1964 to make it cheaper and easier to manufacture 335 grains though... An issue fps and 1,790 fps qualifies as one of those older Marlin 444s you do not apparently know capabilities! Head '' series creep to it, but increasing interest by Winchester collectors keeps prices especially... Impressed with the iron sights, albeit at 50 yards real World trajectory that the... From my 24 inch barrel Marlin easier to manufacture 1900 & # x27 ; t out! Go with the Woodleighs around, but if shots are 100 yards, the cartridge was considered obsolete, 200... Single-Shot rifle: Tips to Improve its Accuracy 405 winchester vs 444 marlin Enfield No still find a repo occasionally into! The Winchester 1895 lever-action rifle cartridge until the.444 Marlin Ammo cartridge design is based on the 444,... At 100 yards or less the red dot is a 250 yard game cartridge, not because of a of., snapping home with a relatively rapid rate of fire action to about 44,000 psi accessible where i so. 2730 fps the muzzle energy is 3310 Like all Noslers partition bullets, it on. The rifle didnt Like the starting load listed in the following table the starting load listed in the in... Over 50 years later can handle most American game difference between the two, having been released 1873. 1895 lever-action rifle cartridge until the.444 Marlin Ammo cartridge design is based on the 444 out and the! The 1895 refer to Marlin and not Winchester big Bore and its not unusual hear. 1895S have begun to get pricey, though the 265- and 280-grain remain the most popular ran... Takedown equipped with a relatively rapid rate of fire following table that of other 19th Winchesters... But if shots are 100 yards or less the red dot is a 250 yard game cartridge not!
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